Project : Go Faster Part 1 - Suspension

[MonteCitan]

Hi all..

I'm working on a long-run plan with this car...

My first goal is.. Traction.

When I went Thursday, the car would pogo off the line/not plant on the launch.. felt like it was hitting it's bump stops/ it'd hop (not wheel hop, the back of the car would bounce up and down) increasing/decreasing damping of the Tokico D Specs didn't help any. Car has Eibach Sportlines and I don't think it could physically go much lower.. IMO too low for drag racing, the center of the car is too far forward / weight transfer sucks and there's that whole pogo issue

Front/Rear what are your thoughts for better grip? I definitely need different springs, are there any that don't lift the car up TOO much? (maybe an inch at most/ minimally closer to stock - without looking slammed) What are the best spring choices for launch?

Car Currently has:
Eibach Sportlines
Tokico D-Spec adjustable Shock and Struts
Seetda Adjustable panhard bar
Steeda Control arms

Car needs (what say you..)
?? Springs
?? Anything else?

Also What are your thoughts on the torque limiters for the TR3650? Noticed now that I have grip in first, very hard to shift into second at WOT, thinking it's torquing up/twisting the case a bit...

Would better motor mounts be a better option?

Thanks for any input

[2kanchoo]

Those eibach's most definitely aren't helping you. A lot of guys serious about the track run the shocks out of the cobra jet cars. Even the stock springs would be better for the track. Really lowering the car at all is counter-intuitive for drag racing. It changes all the suspension geometry.

First of all what tires are you using? getting some holeshots(etc) with actual slicks would make the biggest difference out of anything.

Do you have an adjustable UCA or are those LCA's adjustable? With how much the car is lowered by the eibach's I'm sure your pinion angle is not near where it should be either which could be a big contributing factor to the hop you are talking about.

I'd search out s197forum.com and see what combinations those guys are using for 1/4mile specific cars. They have the entire gamut of possibilities right up to 8 second s197's.

As far as tq limiters go, what shifter do you have? Getting a MGW shifter would be a great improvement not only in reduced binding but also precision of shifts and adjustability of throw length and shifter knob height.

Other than that stiffer motor mounts make a noticeable difference but of course also increase vibration and noise a tad aswell.

My suggestions would be:
- check s197forum.com for what combo's all the big time racers use (id be more specific with my help but I'm not that big into 1/4 stuff or setting my car up for it.)
- Cobra jet shocks, or even steeda sport shocks or ones that raise the car up from where it currently sits (not necessarily back to stock height but closer than the eibachs)
- adjustable upper third link or if your lowers are adjustable making sure your pinion angle is correct.
- mgw shifter, and at the least stiffer motor mounts.

[MonteCitan]

There's a crapload of data to sort through at S197forum and if a question has been asked 6 years ago and someone remembers it and you didn't find it the search they flame you worse than autoglasstech got flamed for asking a clutch question in the clubhouse..

I definitely agree on the ride height and pinion angle... Do you really think it'd be worth going back with the stock springs? The car will see the track pretty frequently.. prob most of the times it comes out of the garage.. But still looking forward to a decent ride on the street

Vibration doesn't bother me, I've had several cammed foxes with solid or similar motor mounts haha..

I ran MT ET Street IIs this time - 305/35r18

http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/h...t=P1040905.mp4

my failed attempt.. 8.3@89 and got beat by a jeep lol

[2kanchoo]

Yea they tend to get a tad butthurt because their search feature actually works haha. That being said anything you could possibly want to know about s197's is there, or the person to pm about it anyway.

Is your lca adjustable or do you have an adjustable uca? I'd start there. Get your pinion angle -2 to -4 degrees (tipping down towards the front of the car) and see if that remedies some of or all of the hop. That might be enough to make you happy. And if not then you can get different springs and re-adjust pinion angle etc.

Some stiffer motor mounts would be the cheapest (not including labor) fix for the shifter binding. The MGW would be the best and most enjoyable fix for the problem. (you would jizz in your pants at how it shifts and the wicked adjustability of it)

What's your 60' time like? Are you running the tires at lower pressure? Worked best for me at around 16 psi. (the same tires)

[SlideWRX]

Sounds like you need some lower control arm brackets to get some anti squat back after lowering. If you switch to springs that are still lower than stock, you will still need lower control arm brackets. If you are OK with a slightly rougher ride get ones with plenty of holes to choose from and set up the arms to be lower at the axle than the frame.

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by SlideWRX

Sounds like you need some lower control arm brackets to get some anti squat back after lowering. If you switch to springs that are still lower than stock, you will still need lower control arm brackets. If you are OK with a slightly rougher ride get ones with plenty of holes to choose from and set up the arms to be lower at the axle than the frame.

Forgot about those. Yea this is a good idea. Get the weld in ones. You do NOT want them giving out on you.

Edit: I can't believe I forgot those. Anyway that's where I'd start. Adjusting pinion angle and lca brackets. Those two should make a huge improvement.

[MonteCitan]

Damn glad I posted this, coming from an era of cars I'd never lowered.. I hadn't even considered LCA extenders I'll definitely try a set - anyone have a brand preference?

Have a set of motor mounts on the way.. and still eyeing up an MGW shifter

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

Damn glad I posted this, coming from an era of cars I'd never lowered.. I hadn't even considered LCA extenders I'll definitely try a set - anyone have a brand preference?

Have a set of motor mounts on the way.. and still eyeing up an MGW shifter

Steeda makes some good ones. Just make sure they are weld in's not just bolt in.

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by 2kanchoo

Steeda makes some good ones. Just make sure they are weld in's not just bolt in.

Are there legitimate safety issues with the bolt ins? I'd be hesitant to make a permanent change like that to the rear..

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

Are there legitimate safety issues with the bolt ins? I'd be hesitant to make a permanent change like that to the rear..

There are people that have had them snap at the track. All of a sudden getting pulled to one side or the other ftl I would imagine lol. Just so long as you get one with multiple holes for the lca to mount to you won't be losing any adjustability, just gaining the ability to adjust it for the car being lower.

[notfastenuf]

Late to the party here but I'll ditto what 2kanchoo said -

Eibach sportlines are the lowest you can get before going coilover - ditch those for some FFRP or Steeda. Your pinion angle is certainly off with those in. You know if the stops in the rear are cut at all? What UCA and UCA mount are you running? OEM pieces?

For the street, I've read both good and bad about the brackets; possibly being overkill for the amount of hp you're putting out. There are a threads on it over at SVTp - I'll see what I can find ya later today.

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by notfastenuf

Late to the party here but I'll ditto what 2kanchoo said -

Eibach sportlines are the lowest you can get before going coilover - ditch those for some FFRP or Steeda. Your pinion angle is certainly off with those in. You know if the stops in the rear are cut at all? What UCA and UCA mount are you running? OEM pieces?

For the street, I've read both good and bad about the brackets; possibly being overkill for the amount of hp you're putting out. There are a threads on it over at SVTp - I'll see what I can find ya later today.

Good looking out man, I am going to play with the suspension a bit for sure

[MonteCitan]

FYI, I kept everything else the same but went with eibach drag springs instead of sportlines, and played with the damping on the struts, my launch is much better and the car doesn't pogo any longer..

As for shifting, the motor mounts made the biggest difference, haven't missed a shift since

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

FYI, I kept everything else the same but went with eibach drag springs instead of sportlines, and played with the damping on the struts, my launch is much better and the car doesn't pogo any longer..

As for shifting, the motor mounts made the biggest difference, haven't missed a shift since

[Damouth]

Ive got an 06 GT, lowered..... hurst shifter, will different motor mounts help out with the shifting at higher rpms.... anything above 6200 is almost impossible to get into gear.... i installed centerforce stage 2, street/strip clutch and that didnt change anything

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by Damouth

Ive got an 06 GT, lowered..... hurst shifter, will different motor mounts help out with the shifting at higher rpms.... anything above 6200 is almost impossible to get into gear.... i installed centerforce stage 2, street/strip clutch and that didnt change anything

100% yes - as in the video above my car physically would not go into 2nd gear at redline under load, after motor mounts it felt like a different car

Fairly easy to install, too

[Damouth]

What Kind Of Mounts Did You Use?

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by Damouth

What Kind Of Mounts Did You Use?

I went with the Prothane mounts

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by Damouth

Ive got an 06 GT, lowered..... hurst shifter, will different motor mounts help out with the shifting at higher rpms.... anything above 6200 is almost impossible to get into gear.... i installed centerforce stage 2, street/strip clutch and that didnt change anything

Chainging clutch won't do anything for problems seating in gear. The reason it binds is because the tranny is mounted to the motor. At high rpm the motor moves side to side. This moves the tranny. The shifter is mounted to the body. Thus the binding.

Which hurst shifter? Comp plus or billet? The comp plus is a piece of garbage. I had one. It sucks. The only shifter I know of that actually makes any reduction in binding is MGW. It's the best engineered, the most adjustable (in throw length and knob position) and worth atleast twice what they charge. I shlt you not I wouldn't hesitate to pay double for one, it's that good. Not only does it make shifting easier, It's adjustable, seats beautifully and truly makes the driving experience more enjoyable.

Now for total reduction of that roll motor mounts are the cheapest/easiest way to go. Can't go wrong with prothanes.

[MonteCitan]

I still need to work on the suspension I think..

I'm launching at 2k RPM.. Almost hit 7s and broke 90MPH by quite a bit (92mph) but definitely lost momentum off the line and on the 1-2 shift 1.96 60' if I can get down to a 1.6 60' I'd be solid mid 7s.. I can pull a supra top end that traps 96MPH in the 1/8th..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCj_8gz1Ero&feature=plcp

Eibach drag springs, tightened the struts in the rear quite a bit, loosened the fronts, still running the 305 ET streets, at 15 PSI on Thurs, and I only semi gripped after spinning as I lifted off the gas to try and hook or it would have kept going, I'm trying to walk it out of the hole, not launching it hard at all..

Any ideas? As I'm still not stock ride height, still thinking LCA relocation brackets (the ones that lower the mount point for the LCA on the rear) may help the instant center, it seems like it's still lifting the tires on launch rather than planting them down..

....

Additionally, thinking of having the 8.8 welded in case I do actually grip.. Is this a worthy modification to keep from bending or twisting the tube?

[2kanchoo]

I think you'd get the most results from changing rear wheels to some 15's with actual slicks. My best 60 was 1.79 with the 305/40(or 35?)/18 et street 2's at 16 psi. I'd leave about 3500. For me what worked best was to raise the revs to 3500ish, then ease the clutch out a bit while holding the gas at the same spot. Once I started moving I would mash the gas pedal. If I'd drop the clutch or straight hammered the gas I would spin. Basically I would forget about reaction time. Once it hit green I would just concentrate on working the clutch/gas and leave when I was ready.

[2kanchoo]

update?

[MonteCitan]

I've been working too much, haven't had a chance to change anything so haven't gone back to track yet.. I'll prob do some more work in August.. Thinking a set of 4.30s and LCA relocation brackets (welded in, of course)

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

I've been working too much, haven't had a chance to change anything so haven't gone back to track yet.. I'll prob do some more work in August.. Thinking a set of 4.30s and LCA relocation brackets (welded in, of course)

4:30's. You'll love em for the track. Not so much for the highway.

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by 2kanchoo

4:30's. You'll love em for the track. Not so much for the highway.

The only highway driving this car sees is the trip to the track.. and that's all of about 40 MPH if I'm lucky

In calculating it out.. with the TR6060, 4.30s would be like going with 3.73s with the TR3650 , 4.56s would be like 4.11s with the 3650 so I don't think it'd be too drastic

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

The only highway driving this car sees is the trip to the track.. and that's all of about 40 MPH if I'm lucky

In calculating it out.. with the TR6060, 4.30s would be like going with 3.73s with the TR3650 , 4.56s would be like 4.11s with the 3650 so I don't think it'd be too drastic

I just came back here to say, wait you have the tr6060 don't you haha. No it won't be bad at all.

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by 2kanchoo

I just came back here to say, wait you have the tr6060 don't you haha. No it won't be bad at all.

Looking into deals on gears now.. And installed LCA relocation brackets .. Atually I think it made the factory mounting point stronger haha- first impressions are great, will try to make it to the track tomorrow

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

Looking into deals on gears now.. And installed LCA relocation brackets .. Atually I think it made the factory mounting point stronger haha- first impressions are great, will try to make it to the track tomorrow

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by 2kanchoo

Guess I hadn't reported back.. Pulled off a 1.8 60'! And prob could have improved, had I had more than 2 runs.. Getting there

Next stop is to see if my belt pops again

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

Guess I hadn't reported back.. Pulled off a 1.8 60'! And prob could have improved, had I had more than 2 runs.. Getting there

Next stop is to see if my belt pops again

Not too shabby sir. What was the time of the run?

[MonteCitan]

Originally Posted by 2kanchoo

Not too shabby sir. What was the time of the run?

7.82@93

And after the belt came off, I realized I have prob been leaving some power on the table, too.. Tons of belt dust under there

Any thoughts on the Whipple 10 rib setup? It would bump me up ~1PSI to 11 - with a tune, how long do you think that'll hold?

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

7.82@93

And after the belt came off, I realized I have prob been leaving some power on the table, too.. Tons of belt dust under there

Any thoughts on the Whipple 10 rib setup? It would bump me up ~1PSI to 11 - with a tune, how long do you think that'll hold?

I forgot you were blown lol. Unless you are planning on making some insane power no need to get a 10 rib setup. There are lots of nice 8 rib ones out there too. This guy is supposed to have the best tensioners/pully setups available. http://www.thumpracing.com/ Kinda like how the MGW is just that little bit better than everyone else. I've read tons of threads about guys that had belt slip/shredding and it was all fixed with a setup from that guy.

What exactly do you have for engine/blower? If you're getting away with 10psi already I can't see 1 more psi blowing you up unless the tune is off. If you're running the stock 4.6 I'm actually surprised it's holding up to 10 psi being taken down the track already. What kinda power you makin? Of course it's very tune dependent, but most agree with a great tune 425-450rwhp is the max you want to go on the stock 4.6 internals.

[MonteCitan]

Stock engine, Ford Racing whipple HO kit

I work with a guy that worked with Saleen when they developed their SC setup, his opinion is anything under 500 HP is pretty safe, but anything can happen with any modified car

I went to a dyno day at GTR - 78* outside and running 5 gal VP 109/5 gal 91, put down 489@6200 RPM (It'd make more power if I could rev higher, but sticking with the stock redline as the engine is stock) previous owner dyno tuned at 475 WHP

I wanted an aluminator 3v bottom end but FRPP killed that option

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

Stock engine, Ford Racing whipple HO kit

I work with a guy that worked with Saleen when they developed their SC setup, his opinion is anything under 500 HP is pretty safe, but anything can happen with any modified car

I went to a dyno day at GTR - 78* outside and running 5 gal VP 109/5 gal 91, put down 489@6200 RPM (It'd make more power if I could rev higher, but sticking with the stock redline as the engine is stock) previous owner dyno tuned at 475 WHP

I wanted an aluminator 3v bottom end but FRPP killed that option

Nice power. Yea it's mostly in the tune at those levels. Any detonation and holes tend to appear in the block. The fact you're keeping the rpms down isn't a bad thing for sure. If I was you I'd contact thumprr and see what they recommend for your setup.

[MonteCitan]

Looks like its time to upgrade the rear end.. and the tensioner..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1IbxSfZgg

I'm thinking it's from something that was done before I bought the car (slid into a curb?)

What prompted me to check this is a once-per-rotation crunching type noise with a hint of brake squeal that would become very obvious with the ebrake on.. I'd pulled everything apart, lubricated everything as needed, etc..

Put it up in the air initially thinking warped rotor, fired it up, rolled the wheel.. noticed some side to side wobble of the rim, not the tire.. Then pulled wheel off, caliper was moving back and forth.. Then this video.. Then the hub and yeah I put a dial gauge on it, it's bent..

Also via tape measure/straight edge and plumb bob, housing is not bent, just the axle (at least it's not bent up/down, I couldn't easily check side to side, but the tires measure equally apart from the body of the car on both sides)

Car's been mostly on hold as I've been spending my fun money on my seadoo..

Oh, to keep this tech - I've heard the stock axle on the 05+ GTs is great (and they are the same ones used on the GT500) I'm thinking just stick with that and the stock rear end, with 4.10 gears.. stiffening Diff housing cover and welded axle tubes while I have it apart, sound like a good plan? shooting for less than 700 WHP when everything is done and limited track use..

[2kanchoo]

Originally Posted by MonteCitan

Looks like its time to upgrade the rear end.. and the tensioner..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1IbxSfZgg

I'm thinking it's from something that was done before I bought the car (slid into a curb?)

What prompted me to check this is a once-per-rotation crunching type noise with a hint of brake squeal that would become very obvious with the ebrake on.. I'd pulled everything apart, lubricated everything as needed, etc..

Put it up in the air initially thinking warped rotor, fired it up, rolled the wheel.. noticed some side to side wobble of the rim, not the tire.. Then pulled wheel off, caliper was moving back and forth.. Then this video.. Then the hub and yeah I put a dial gauge on it, it's bent..

Also via tape measure/straight edge and plumb bob, housing is not bent, just the axle (at least it's not bent up/down, I couldn't easily check side to side, but the tires measure equally apart from the body of the car on both sides)

Car's been mostly on hold as I've been spending my fun money on my seadoo..

Oh, to keep this tech - I've heard the stock axle on the 05+ GTs is great (and they are the same ones used on the GT500) I'm thinking just stick with that and the stock rear end, with 4.10 gears.. stiffening Diff housing cover and welded axle tubes while I have it apart, sound like a good plan? shooting for less than 700 WHP when everything is done and limited track use..

My first guess is that it hit a curb as well. I haven't heard any issues with the stock axle. Although most guys that go to make huge power upgrade to a higher spline count. If you're going inside I'd suggest upgrading the fluid and clutch packs as well.