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Old 11-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #1
From6to8
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Thoughts on Block Seal just to see if it helps

I have always had a low end miss hesitation lately I would say probably for a good bit of this yr and even after a complete few months of diagnosing, up to date maintenance and checks, trying other parts, ect. I do seem to have some coolant overtime, not anything fast, but have some coolant loss and can smell just a slight coolant, not very strong at all but I think its slight. I think its possible I have a slight intake or head gasket leak or maybe even a slight freeze plug leak and probably one in back of head that cant be seen ( I just had one on my pickup in same spot that was leaking and I couldnt see the leak).

I'm wondering if it's worth trying a can of K&W block seal in it to keep fix it temporarily as I have heard of people doing it and it lasting a few yrs or more. The main thing i want to know from you guys is the negative effects of using block seal as i think I have heard in the past about it clogging your radiator potentially or something and just want to know if there are any potential risks to using it. I don't want to worry about this little problem if potentially it will mean needing to spend more money as a result of it possibly messing up something else like a radiator or something. Also there is no coolant mixing with oil or anything. If there is a slight head gasket or intake gasket, that will cause a slight hesitation/miss possibly?

So thoughts guys??????????
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #2
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #3
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i've found my advice elsewhere
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:37 PM   #4
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It'll clog your radiator and heater core, not to mention the coolant passages in the heads and block. Then when you pull the heads to do the job the right way expect to pay the machine shop more $$$ to clean all that crap out. Buy a coolant pressure tester at NAPA, that will tell you alot. I tried that junk once in a car that was going to the auto auction, it said on the bottle that to let the engine run for I think an hour, so I poured it in, started the engine, and about 10 minutes later it locked down.

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Old 12-03-2013, 05:34 AM   #5
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i would want to know where its going before trying a product like that...

if you do decide thats the way you want to go use GM sealer tabs over anything else.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modo View Post
i would want to know where its going before trying a product like that...

if you do decide thats the way you want to go use GM sealer tabs over anything else.
well i found out the intake gasket was badly blown so i fixed that and now I'm still having missing and lack of proper power.



As a part of my diagnosing yesterday after putting in some lucas oil to see if it would help a possible unseated valve, I drove the car on a nice hour and half to two hr ride. At about the one hr mark I stopped and unplugged the chip. It seemed to drive a little bit better at first and It even seemed be more peppy on take off but later on in the drive it was about the same. The CEL was on but its for my EGR delete i know was an automatic code. I wanted to check anyway tonite after driving the car up town to put in some fuel.

koeo:

327-egr ( which is not on car)
552-Air management 1 circuit failed( I'm guessing thats smog related)
553-nothing in book for that so im thinking also smog
558- google seems to say EGR related also
121- closed throttle voltage higher or lower than expected
122- TP sensor circuit below mininum voltage
177- HEGO shows system always lean left

koer:
314, 311 seems to be smog related as googling noted. Also got 327 again.

So as far as that it seems i should just change the TPS since it is the original one and 182k on car? Bought new NGK's from Rock Auto a yr ago and about 7k miles put on them so I'm going to call them thursday and see if they will send me another set. If I go to parts store and buy them and they don't fix that issue then I'm stuck with 2 sets and they don't go out that often at least not normally I guess. I won't be able to try them and clean them up and take back would i lol? I'm hoping that's the culprit of my miss problems and loss of power, the tps and/or the 02's and that compression tester might be malfunctioning and then I won't have to worry about rebuilding, pulling heads, or what have you.


on Edit, I tested the TPS and its showing fine. Normal of .97 and WOT it sweeps normal from .97 to 4.60. I had 3 IAT sensors and changed it weeks ago during diagnosing so i will swap back to one of the others. I might of put one one from the v6 and if that was a culprit of the issues I'm gona kick myself but I highly doubt thats the case
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by From6to8 View Post


on Edit, I tested the TPS and its showing fine. Normal of .97 and WOT it sweeps normal from .97 to 4.60. I had 3 IAT sensors and changed it weeks ago during diagnosing so i will swap back to one of the others. I might of put one one from the v6 and if that was a culprit of the issues I'm gona kick myself but I highly doubt thats the case

was the intake gasket sucking the coolant into the cylinders? if yes then replace the spark plugs...

when you checked the tps it sounds like you only checked the signal wire. was the reference voltage at 5v? also is there any residual voltage on the signal ground? if so how much?

the TPS errors are no bueno along with the LB lean. enough codes and the EEC will go into limp mode which will make the car run like a turd
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modo View Post
was the intake gasket sucking the coolant into the cylinders? if yes then replace the spark plugs...

when you checked the tps it sounds like you only checked the signal wire. was the reference voltage at 5v? also is there any residual voltage on the signal ground? if so how much?

the TPS errors are no bueno along with the LB lean. enough codes and the EEC will go into limp mode which will make the car run like a turd
will check that again and check all three wires

what should i look for as far as residual voltage on the ground?

LB?
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:56 AM   #9
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and only the no. 2 runner had oil/coolant residue mixture. The other plugs looked fine so i replaced no. 2 only
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:38 AM   #10
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Early reports from findings a few minutes ago
Car cold did not let it warm up:

pulled no. 2 plug and it smelled but almost like oil/fuel. Did not smell strongly one way or the other. I smelled one of the plugs I took out a few wks ago and that one had no smell really. Smelled a few and no smell. Not sure if over a few wks they arent supposed to smell or what. Also smelled the no. 2 gunky plug before fixing intake leak and no smell on it either.

i added coolant to the overflow jug last nite before driving a few times. This morning, the radiator was down right past the neck, so the equivalent of maybe what 3 inches. Overflow jug had went down also from maybe 4 inches over the full hot mark, to right at the full hot mark. Does that say anything specific? Also the steaming of the tails last night and over past few wks, sort of spraying water out as I can only see looking at the cement but not visually coming out of the tails though you can see water in the tails.

TPS-
bottom brown and white wire had pretty much nothing

middle gray wire - .95 and swept from there to WOT to 4.68 smoothly

top grey with red stripe- .04

checked IAT and that was 3.42 and 0.04
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:45 PM   #11
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LB= left bank... based on this

177- HEGO shows system always lean left


i don't remember the color codes off the top of my head but i assume the .04 was on the signal ground? what scale did you use on the DVM?

sounds like you are still losing coolant. i recently had a coolant leak issue that i swore up and down that it wasn't the head gasket but deep down i knew it was. it would hold a coolant pressure test, and passed a leak down test but yet was leaking between the layers of the MLS gaskets into cylinder #5. if the car sat for a few months and the piston was at BDC the motor would be hydro-locked. car still ran its ass off and didn't show any other signs other then coolant loss over time.

harbor freight and walmart sell small video bore scopes for less then 60 bucks. it might be worth letting the car sit over night and sticking the scope in the spark plug hole to see if you see coolant. if you do then you know the next steps.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modo View Post
LB= left bank... based on this

177- HEGO shows system always lean left


i don't remember the color codes off the top of my head but i assume the .04 was on the signal ground? what scale did you use on the DVM?

sounds like you are still losing coolant. i recently had a coolant leak issue that i swore up and down that it wasn't the head gasket but deep down i knew it was. it would hold a coolant pressure test, and passed a leak down test but yet was leaking between the layers of the MLS gaskets into cylinder #5. if the car sat for a few months and the piston was at BDC the motor would be hydro-locked. car still ran its ass off and didn't show any other signs other then coolant loss over time.

harbor freight and walmart sell small video bore scopes for less then 60 bucks. it might be worth letting the car sit over night and sticking the scope in the spark plug hole to see if you see coolant. if you do then you know the next steps.
yeah well going thru some steps and checks today, when I check the tps (scale on 20 of the voltmeter), I at that point was just going to go ahead and put on a new tps to see what difference it might make. Having messed up one of the screws long time ago, the easiest way to drill the head off the screw was to take the intake off. When I took the intake off and after I had already drilled the head off and pulled the tps off and was going to clean the IAC and tps location out some, when I went to check the inside of TB, I saw milky oil. Would post pics and probably will later when i have time. MW should have been like other sites with the ease of manage attachments lol.

So head gasket?

Even if it's not a head gasket and is a ring or valve, then I might as well go ahead and freshen everything up. Now if I let the guy who did my engine swap check everything out and he finds it only to be a head gasket, then I might just go ahead and fix that and only that depending on what the charge difference will be for him to to a 306 rebuild. I will also consider future and on down the road. The car will be a non track car, play on the street sometimes when IM IN THE MOOD LOL. I dont get caught up in the race me my car is better than yours stuff lol.

I will think about a 306 with possible SC, just a 306, or just a 331. I want a nice weekend driver, play toy. I'm about to buy a new truck also so that will also be a weekend driver so the stang will probably go from 7k a year it was averaging over past 5 plus years to maybe 4-5k.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:11 PM   #13
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Oh I forgot to ask, if it is a head gasket, ring, or valve problem, would it have contributed to any of those codes as far as the tps and 02 sensors?
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:32 PM   #14
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a leak down will tell you really quick what the shape of the rings are...

a motor with a pcv will have some oil residue in the intake... just the nature of the beast

imo a head gasket job will be cheap compared to a r&r on the motor... going to a stroker will add roughly 1500 in parts alone on top of everything else


you can borrow a cooling system pressure tester from autozone etc. if you have a air compressor that will produce 100psi you can make a leak down tester for less then 30 bucks. the harbor freight piece is ok but you need to remove the leakage side gauge and replace it with a pressure gauge from homedepot etc.

otherwise it will cost you ~100 or so for a OTC etc
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modo View Post
a leak down will tell you really quick what the shape of the rings are...

a motor with a pcv will have some oil residue in the intake... just the nature of the beast

imo a head gasket job will be cheap compared to a r&r on the motor... going to a stroker will add roughly 1500 in parts alone on top of everything else


you can borrow a cooling system pressure tester from autozone etc. if you have a air compressor that will produce 100psi you can make a leak down tester for less then 30 bucks. the harbor freight piece is ok but you need to remove the leakage side gauge and replace it with a pressure gauge from homedepot etc.

otherwise it will cost you ~100 or so for a OTC etc
not just oil in the intake, milky . thats why i was asking your opinion on it if would more than likely be a head gasket or what
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:55 PM   #16
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:57 PM   #17
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:59 PM   #18
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:09 PM   #19
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that is way too much oil...

you should leak the motor down for sure. if the #s come back good you should inspect the pcv system as that is the only place imo it could be coming from that high up.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:12 PM   #20
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that is way too much oil...

you should leak the motor down for sure. if the #s come back good you should inspect the pcv system as that is the only place imo it could be coming from that high up.
im not gona go that test myself and after messing with the car m whole vacation pretty much since wk of thanksgiving, I'm spent so if anything i will take it to a shop probably. The thing is why is the coolant mixing with the oil is what I thought you would have answered about lol? Isnt that a sign that something is blown?
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:34 PM   #21
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head gasket is most likely the culprit
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:39 PM   #22
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head gasket is most likely the culprit
yeah im probably going to let the guy who did the swap check it out after he pulls the heads. i will go get the heads and take them to the machine shop. If he doesnt find the rings to be bad or anything, I may just slap them back together but then again he said last time i talked to him that it might be a good idea to just go thru it with 182k miles on it. So not sure what I will do. Thats why i wana have a plan a and b right now, gathering all the ideas and possibilities so I can get the car back as quickly as possible.


whats your thoughts on his saying when the heads are went thru and made back like new if there is say a burnt valve and he fixes everything, he said the heads will be stronger and would put more pressure on the engine and could possibly smoke. I think thats why he said it might be best to go thru the engine. Now if the guy deems the heads to be in good shape and he doesnt do anything but inspect them and clean them up, would that be considered strengthning the heads up or should that be just a straightup head gasket job and I should be good to go?
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:47 PM   #23
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if the ring leakage is good and it has good oil pressure then a simple head gasket job would suffice.

without having the motor in front of me that is all i can offer
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:48 PM   #24
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And another bearing on what i do is the difference between a head job labor minus the machine shop and a rebuild of a 306 minus machine work. In other words if its only maybe 500 dollar diff or less, I might let him do the rebuild of a 306 if thats what i make my mind up to do. I know the stroker will be more labor.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:51 PM   #25
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And another bearing on what i do is the difference between a head job labor minus the machine shop and a rebuild of a 306 minus machine work. In other words if its only maybe 500 dollar diff or less, I might let him do the rebuild of a 306 if thats what i make my mind up to do. I know the stroker will be more labor.
306 requires new pistons. i would say the price of the pistons, bearings, and gaskets would be more then 500 alone.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:00 PM   #26
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306 requires new pistons. i would say the price of the pistons, bearings, and gaskets would be more then 500 alone.
no i meant labor from just doing a head gasket job to the labor for the 306
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:29 AM   #27
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if the ring leakage is good and it has good oil pressure then a simple head gasket job would suffice.

without having the motor in front of me that is all i can offer
damn called the one shop in my area that had one and they said 85 bucks per hr and if just needed to concentrate on no. 2 then 1 hr would cover it but doing all 2 hrs should cover it.

Darn 170 bucks lol
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:31 AM   #28
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hey , in regards to no. 2 probably being the culprit, if he checks no. 2 and finds that there is an issue to the valve and not the ring, then would it be safe to say that it would be just a head job needed?

If I decide to not buy the leakdown tester , i should be able to watch the video now by the way after restarting my router, if i dont buy it and let him do it then to save that other 85 bucks would be great. Now I in no way want to miss anything.

Let me rephrase it in this regard. If he finds that the no 2 ring is messed up, is that a situation where if you do one ring u might as well do all and so i can save the 85 bucks labor on checking the rest of the cylinders? Answer your thoughts for either situation on not being a ring and just checking no 2 and it being a ring and checking no. 2.

thanks
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:55 AM   #29
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Block seal to rectify a hesitation/miss...does not compute. Thats like putting fix a flat in your tank to cure detonation.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:03 AM   #30
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Block seal to rectify a hesitation/miss...does not compute. Thats like putting fix a flat in your tank to cure detonation.
only asked that because of the possibility of it having have been a slight tear in the head gasket but ofcourse since then realize the importance to just fix **** if its broke lol. But in some cases if you just wana get buy if you are planning another build or something ,or any case I just wanted to know for reference
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by From6to8 View Post
since then realize the importance to just fix **** if its broke lol. But in some cases if you just wana get buy if you are planning another build or something ,or any case I just wanted to know for reference
For some reason the phrase dyno tune comes to mind
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:50 PM   #32
From6to8
95-6to8,converted Saleen
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: charleston, sc
Posts: 1,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blck92GT View Post
For some reason the phrase dyno tune comes to mind
nope how about my issues far and along might have been something that would eventually cause a broken valve spring. Yep started hearing a ticking noise the other day, pulled the valve cover off and found the rocker arm twisted and the spring was broken into a few pieces. The valve from what i can see looks fine and a guy is coming over tommorow to look at it. We will try and determine rather just replacing the spring might be good enough.

I want to do what is smart or what is the best overall thing to do so I will see what he says tomorrow. If the spring replacing is what it is, i will watch some videos and see if I am comfortable with doing it.
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95 V6 converted GT/SALEEN. Trick Flow heads, E cam, FR 1.6 Roller Rockers , Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 intake, 24 lb injectors, Mac shortie headers, Basani X-pipe with 2 chamber flowmasters, 3.55 gears, MSD 6AL with coil, subframe connectors, Mac Rear UCA'S/LCA'S, Hotchkis Caster Cambers, 18x9 and 18x10 inch saleen wheels with 265 35's on front and 295's on rear.

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