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Old 11-24-2020, 09:13 AM   #1
Sage Francis
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Need a new bbq

Looking at Kamado Joe....not sure I care enough about the "art of cooking" to buy it.

Been pretty happy with your mid level propane bbq for the past 5yrs.

That said, I'm willing to jump back to charcoal in some way shape or form.

What say you MW?
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:16 AM   #2
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Go to Home Depot or Costco and get the one that's on sale

I need one, too, come to think of it. Mine is 8 years old and falling apart and rusting.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:19 AM   #3
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....not sure I care enough about the "art of cooking" to buy it.
Well there you go. Go buy whatever's on sale.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:38 AM   #4
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Look into Napolean grills.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:19 AM   #5
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Looking at Kamado Joe....not sure I care enough about the "art of cooking" to buy it.

Been pretty happy with your mid level propane bbq for the past 5yrs.

That said, I'm willing to jump back to charcoal in some way shape or form.

What say you MW?
I'm not a fan of the insulated grills. You have to have the vents closed down in order to prevent the temperature from getting out of control. As a result, it's easier to get that acrid smoke taste in your food from starving the fuel of oxygen. I'm a big fan of the cheap weber kettle. Depending on how you load the coals, you can pretty much keep the vents wide open with any type of cooking.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:27 AM   #6
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I picked up a Coyote grill a few months back to replace an old grill bought at HD, and am happy with it. Thicker metal and a better overall build quality than the one I paid HD $600 for.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:08 AM   #7
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I will tell jew juan thing. Spend a little extra and get something quality. I was notorious for buying the cheap HD stuff and that crap falls apart after a couple of seasons. you buy one quality grill and you essentially own it for life.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:15 AM   #8
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This
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Aussie-21-2...rill/999930878
and this
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kingsford-K...ter/1001568678
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:32 AM   #9
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I have a blaze 32in built in gas grill and a Chargriller Akorn insulated steel grill.

When the fire box of the Akorn rusts out I'll buy a Primo Oval or a Kamado Joe. I bought the Akorn to see how much I like that style of Grill, turns out I do. I've had it for a least 5 years and have enjoyed cooking on it.

I smoke on the Akron, and do high heat steaks. I cook burgers and chicken on the Blaze, and my wife uses only the Blaze.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:34 AM   #10
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I'm not a fan of the insulated grills. You have to have the vents closed down in order to prevent the temperature from getting out of control. As a result, it's easier to get that acrid smoke taste in your food from starving the fuel of oxygen. I'm a big fan of the cheap weber kettle. Depending on how you load the coals, you can pretty much keep the vents wide open with any type of cooking.
Are you using lump charcoal?

I do lump with either the "volcano" method or a ring around the outside of the firebox, and I have very little lump lit at any one time when I'm smoking.

I only get the whole firebox lit when cooking steaks at high temps.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:12 PM   #11
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Depends on your budget and needs. I recently learned of Lynx and Alfresco grills when we built our outdoor bbq area and I went with alfresco. Very high quality but pricy.

Costco usually has a couple nice ones. Usually kitchen aid or Weber. You will have to wait until spring summer though.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:49 PM   #12
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Are you using lump charcoal?

I do lump with either the "volcano" method or a ring around the outside of the firebox, and I have very little lump lit at any one time when I'm smoking.

I only get the whole firebox lit when cooking steaks at high temps.
I've used an akorn and it was hard to maintain temperature. Like I said, with the weber, I stack the charcoal depending on what I'm cooking, and leave the vents wide open. There's no guessing or fiddling around. The results are predictable and repeatable. I can't say the same for the akorn.

I mostly use briquettes. People complain that they are full of fillers, but I like how even they heat and how predicable they are. As far as I've cared enough to research, the fillers are there to dampen the burn rate and to act as a thermal reservoir. Your mileage may very, but I like them.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:21 PM   #13
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I've used an akorn and it was hard to maintain temperature. Like I said, with the weber, I stack the charcoal depending on what I'm cooking, and leave the vents wide open. There's no guessing or fiddling around. The results are predictable and repeatable. I can't say the same for the akorn.

I mostly use briquettes. People complain that they are full of fillers, but I like how even they heat and how predicable they are. As far as I've cared enough to research, the fillers are there to dampen the burn rate and to act as a thermal reservoir. Your mileage may very, but I like them.
Using an Akorn with the volcano or ring method with lump I can get it running at 275 and just leave it there for like 8-10 hours. No issues holding temp steady. As it comes up to temp you have to stay ahead of it, if you overshoot it you are fvcked. The air intake will be mostly closed at smoking Temps.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:35 PM   #14
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Using an Akorn with the volcano or ring method with lump I can get it running at 275 and just leave it there for like 8-10 hours. No issues holding temp steady. As it comes up to temp you have to stay ahead of it, if you overshoot it you are fvcked. The air intake will be mostly closed at smoking Temps.
Have you ever used a weber kettle?
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:03 PM   #15
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Have you ever used a weber kettle?
Yeah, for years. They are great for grilling but they aren't great at indirect smoking (ribs, butts, brisket).

You can try to create indirect zones in the weber and people make add ons to do that, but the Akorn is a much better smoker. And for direct heat grilling its just as good, better if you want 600+ degree sear temps.

I've been doing ribeyes from costco sous vide then 45 seconds on each side at 600+ degrees on the Akorn.

If you want a smoker from weber get the WSM and use the kettle to grill. If you want one thing get a Kamado.
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:06 PM   #16
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https://www.napoleon.com/en/us/grills
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:43 PM   #17
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Yeah, for years. They are great for grilling but they aren't great at indirect smoking (ribs, butts, brisket).

You can try to create indirect zones in the weber and people make add ons to do that, but the Akorn is a much better smoker. And for direct heat grilling its just as good, better if you want 600+ degree sear temps.

I've been doing ribeyes from costco sous vide then 45 seconds on each side at 600+ degrees on the Akorn.

If you want a smoker from weber get the WSM and use the kettle to grill. If you want one thing get a Kamado.
I don't need a WSM, and I explaind why I don't think insulated grills are that great. It's interesting that we get such opposite results. You mentioned that weber kettles can't do indirect, but here's some ribs that I made recently that proves otherwise.




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Old 11-25-2020, 03:51 PM   #18
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I don't need a WSM, and I explaind why I don't think insulated grills are that great. It's interesting that we get such opposite results. You mentioned that weber kettles can't do indirect, but here's some ribs that I made recently that proves otherwise.





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Old 11-25-2020, 03:53 PM   #19
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Babydick BBQ.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:59 PM   #20
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Yeah, for years. They are great for grilling but they aren't great at indirect smoking (ribs, butts, brisket).

You can try to create indirect zones in the weber and people make add ons to do that, but the Akorn is a much better smoker. And for direct heat grilling its just as good, better if you want 600+ degree sear temps.

I've been doing ribeyes from costco sous vide then 45 seconds on each side at 600+ degrees on the Akorn.
Forgive me, I've been doing a bit of drinking. My OCD is kicking in here. Can you explain how an akorn can create "indirect zones" better than a weber kettle? They are essentially the same thing other than the akorn is insulated, and I explained how that works against you, especially when cooking low and slow.

As for the steaks, I've tried the sous vide thing, and it's stupid. 45 seconds sear per side, even at 600+ degrees isn't enough time to build a good crust on the steak. This costco ribeye was cooked for the full time on my weber kettle. Ignore the old lady plate, but it took the full cooking time to develop this crust. There's no way you're getting anywhere near this level of crust using a sous vide method.

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Old 11-25-2020, 04:02 PM   #21
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Babydick BBQ.
I know. I could load more ribs with a rib rack, though. I don't often cook for a crowd. When I do, I can load 2 butts on the kettle and feed an army.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:03 PM   #22
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Yeah, for years. They are great for grilling but they aren't great at indirect smoking (ribs, butts, brisket).

You can try to create indirect zones in the weber and people make add ons to do that, but the Akorn is a much better smoker. And for direct heat grilling its just as good, better if you want 600+ degree sear temps.

I've been doing ribeyes from costco sous vide then 45 seconds on each side at 600+ degrees on the Akorn.

If you want a smoker from weber get the WSM and use the kettle to grill. If you want one thing get a Kamado.
Sous vide is something I want to start doing. Costco had a Anova kit for $200. Came with everything needed. Not sure if itís a good one or not but thinking of going back for it if they still have it.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:23 PM   #23
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IMO, pellet smoker is the way to go. 1000x the flavor of gas without the hassle of the Egg/Joe/etc. They’re great for smoking low and slow or grilling chicken and burgers. The only thing I don’t use it for is steak, but I’ve always preferred cast iron and seared for that.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:44 PM   #24
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Sous vide is something I want to start doing. Costco had a Anova kit for $200. Came with everything needed. Not sure if itís a good one or not but thinking of going back for it if they still have it.
I think I paid $89 for the Anova without bluetooth on black friday when i got mine. You don't need connectivity, all you are doing is setting the temp and not changing it.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:50 PM   #25
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IMO, pellet smoker is the way to go. 1000x the flavor of gas without the hassle of the Egg/Joe/etc. Theyíre great for smoking low and slow or grilling chicken and burgers. The only thing I donít use it for is steak, but Iíve always preferred cast iron and seared for that.
You really can't beat the convenience. I picked up a camp chef a year and a half ago on sale (I know I have a problem), and it works great. My gripe is you don't get much smoke flavor in the final product. I found you can supplement with a smoke tube, but it still doesn't match the flavor of smoking with charcoal and wood chunks. The problem is that the pellets are the heat source, so they don't smolder and create smoke. This is because the fan stokes the pellets up to get them providing heat. They do produce smoke briefly each time the control calls for heat and starts dumping pellets in, but once they ignite, they quit producing smoke. The thing to keep in mind is it works more like a convection oven with very light smoke. If you're planning on high radiant heat, you're going to be dissapointed. I plan on cooking my bird tomorrow in the camp chef since there'll be so much going on. It'll free the oven up inside for all of the other stuff.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:33 PM   #26
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Forgive me, I've been doing a bit of drinking. My OCD is kicking in here. Can you explain how an akorn can create "indirect zones" better than a weber kettle? They are essentially the same thing other than the akorn is insulated, and I explained how that works against you, especially when cooking low and slow.

As for the steaks, I've tried the sous vide thing, and it's stupid. 45 seconds sear per side, even at 600+ degrees isn't enough time to build a good crust on the steak. This costco ribeye was cooked for the full time on my weber kettle. Ignore the old lady plate, but it took the full cooking time to develop this crust. There's no way you're getting anywhere near this level of crust using a sous vide method.

The akorn has more depth between the cooking grate and the fire box. I put webber fire grate and then a 14in cake pan with water in it on the diverter tabs in the Akorn (above the fire box, below the cooking grate). Some people put the Akorn pizza stone here, but I like the water pan since it makes for easy clean up from drippings.

I use Roal Oak or Coyboy lump charcoal. Depending on how cleaned out my firebox is I'll use the volcano or ring method. I light very little lump by dropping a cotton ball soaked in alcohol where I want to start it and lighting it. Once I'm sure i have a few lumps lit I put the water pan in, grate on, digital probe in, and close the lid.

I start with both vents wide open. Once the temp starts to come up (150) i'll close both vents half way. Once it crosses 200 I put the vents where I need them for 260 - 275 (basically almost closed on the bottom vent, and 1/4 inch open on the top vent) and pop the meat in. Once it gets up to temp it runs stable from a temp perspective. Mine won't do 225, I think most people doing 225 with a Akorn are doing it with a temperature controller.

If you can't get the temperature to run steady or you can't get it down to 260 you may have air leaks, I didn't have any problems but I know other people have and there are guides out there to fixing them.

Key is to not get too much charcoal lit, if it gets away from you it will be very hard to bring back down. Close vents early and let it creep up. I've never used briquets in the Akorn, but I've used a bunch in my BBQ teams backwoods smoker. We use Kingsford Competition some of the time (got a bunch for free from MIM) and lump some of the time. That smoker has a "maze or snake" charcoal grate, and we normally light a couple of pieces in the chimney to start the maze or I'll hit a couple of pieces with a propane torch. The backwoods smoker is insulated, runs a BBQ guru controller, and is dead on with temps and can provide 20 hour run times without a reload. The backwoods has such a big volume that we never have temp problems with the guru, but in a smaller volume like the Akorn I think briquets could be harder to get temperature stability vs. lump.

Once my firebox rusts out on the Arorn I'll replace it with a Kamado Joe or a Primo Oval. I do a lot of ribs so the primo oval shape is interesting.

I use my Blaze gas grill for quick stuff, and my wife uses it for everything she does outside.
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:35 PM   #27
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I will tell jew juan thing. Spend a little extra and get something quality. I was notorious for buying the cheap HD stuff and that crap falls apart after a couple of seasons. you buy one quality grill and you essentially own it for life.
If you live in a dry climate the cheap ones pretty much last forever too...

And if youíre not going to need the specialized features of an expensive one, the cheap ones are fine. My dad probably spent $100 on his grill 20 years ago and it still gets hotter than the sun.
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Old 11-26-2020, 01:38 PM   #28
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If you live in a dry climate the cheap ones pretty much last forever too...

And if youíre not going to need the specialized features of an expensive one, the cheap ones are fine. My dad probably spent $100 on his grill 20 years ago and it still gets hotter than the sun.
20 years ago a cheap grill was still build like a battleship... the cheap shyt today is fvcking garbage IMO.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:20 PM   #29
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20 years ago a cheap grill was still build like a battleship... the cheap shyt today is fvcking garbage IMO.
Yeah, even the lower end Weber 20 years ago were TANKS. New box store stuff isn’t that way any more.

That’s how I ended up with a Blaze gas grill, my Duncane from 2003 finally rusted out the mounts for the flavorizer bars (after leaving it outside uncovered for 17 years). When I shopped for a replacement I couldn’t find anything worth it at the store. Stuff was rusting in the store.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:35 PM   #30
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If you want to get really OCD, that steak isn't evenly cooked, something sous vide will give you every time.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:37 PM   #31
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Yeah, even the lower end Weber 20 years ago were TANKS. New box store stuff isnít that way any more.

Thatís how I ended up with a Blaze gas grill, my Duncane from 2003 finally rusted out the mounts for the flavorizer bars (after leaving it outside uncovered for 17 years). When I shopped for a replacement I couldnít find anything worth it at the store. Stuff was rusting in the store.
Yep, thick azz stainless/iron and actual powder coating/plating isn't cheap... I think my weber was almost 2k, it is three years old now and still looks fresh out of the box. Previous to that I had something a similar form factor but it was $300 and looked new for about a week, after two years it was teetering and the internal structure of it was all burned/rusted out. Plus the ignitor quit. You'd put it together and the bolts would just chip the paint away from the thin steel... immediate rust. All previous grills were like that until I got something quality, just got tired of having to replace them constantly.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:39 PM   #32
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If you want to get really OCD, that steak isn't evenly cooked, something sous vide will give you every time.
I was thinking about getting one of those... so what's the logic it cooks it perfectly and then you sear it?
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:43 PM   #33
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I was thinking about getting one of those... so what's the logic it cooks it perfectly and then you sear it?
They're cheap, consistent to the .xxx* degree, a better version of a set it and forget it, plus they're silent if you decide to cook something for 12+hrs, and you can cook in literally any vessel with it, it's the size of a big stick blender.

Not good for just proteins.. veggies, eggs, sauces, custards, etc.. but I use them commercially because they can cook 100's of lbs of meat in a giant sink.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:44 PM   #34
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I was thinking about getting one of those... so what's the logic it cooks it perfectly and then you sear it?
When's the last time you had a steak cooked on a cheap charcoal grill?
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They will literally change the rules and make things up to remove a duly-elected president that they don't like.

And people applaud it. They're excited about it. Their democracy is being torn away from them and they're standing on the sidelines cheering, with their pitchforks in hand.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:46 PM   #35
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plus they're bluetooth, so you can look at the cook time and adjust the temperature, even from your recliner in the other room.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:47 PM   #36
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They're cheap, consistent to the .xxx* degree, a better version of a set it and forget it, plus they're silent if you decide to cook something for 12+hrs, and you can cook in literally any vessel with it, it's the size of a big stick blender.

Not good for just proteins.. veggies, eggs, sauces, custards, etc.. but I use them commercially because they can cook 100's of lbs of meat in a giant sink.
How do you get that BBQ flavor though?
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:49 PM   #37
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How do you get that BBQ flavor though?
I marinate and vac seal before it goes into the sous vide bath, pick your flavors/seasonings, and dump it right into the bag with whatever protein you want.

Or, some people choose to sear first, then vac seal and water bath it afterwards.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:52 PM   #38
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I marinate and vac seal before it goes into the sous vide bath, pick your flavors/seasonings, and dump it right into the bag with whatever protein you want.

Or, some people choose to sear first, then vac seal and water bath it afterwards.
Hmmm, might need to try that.
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Old 11-26-2020, 03:27 PM   #39
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They're cheap, consistent to the .xxx* degree, a better version of a set it and forget it, plus they're silent if you decide to cook something for 12+hrs, and you can cook in literally any vessel with it, it's the size of a big stick blender.

Not good for just proteins.. veggies, eggs, sauces, custards, etc.. but I use them commercially because they can cook 100's of lbs of meat in a giant sink.
Sweet, good info dude. Any recommendations on a good bang for the buck example of one?

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Originally Posted by Mr Hollywood View Post
When's the last time you had a steak cooked on a cheap charcoal grill?
So long ago... On the reg I get Delmonico ribeye from this local butcher shop (good quality shop). I let them sit until they're fully room temp, tamper dry... little olive oil that I have sitting with minced garlic in it, sea salt, cracked pepper and tamper delicately by hand. I get my gas grill to the point the temp gauge is in the red... 650ish degrees (I usually achieve this by first cooking delicious sausages until their fat causes the grill to catch fire, quick splash of oil on the grill and throw the steaks on, 2 min each side then finish in the oven I usually cook them medium so it is about 5 min of 350 in the oven, pull them out, let stand for 5 min.

Ive had people over and they're like GODDAMN SON THIS IS GOOD AZZ GORMET ****... and I'm like "I know, there will be a bill before you go, cash only."

I go to friends house and they're all "tonight's menu is tater tots with a well done hot dog... and I'm over here with fvcking Delmonico steaks, whipped potatos... fvcking peppers I grew in my own yard... GODDAMN


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Old 11-26-2020, 03:30 PM   #40
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
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Originally Posted by berad001 View Post
Sweet, good info dude. Any recommendations on a good bang for the buck example of one?
I use the Anova Culinary, it's like $129 I think.
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